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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 26, 2017 8:30pm-9:01pm PDT

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the travel ban what it means when you take it apart. as we will when "the 11th hour" continues.
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it's being called a partial win for president trump today from the supreme court. the court has largely agreed to let the travel ban take effect while agreeing to hear the cases in the fall. this after two lower courts, federal courts, ruled against it. the atlantic had this great
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reality check on what happened today. quote, the victory was limited in a way that anyone who has ever been 12 years old will understand. the court didn't say the government could never have a poniy. but it didn't say the government could have a poniy either. instead it said if you still want a poniy next october we'll see. with us tonight, richard painter, chief ethics lawyers to president george w. bush now teaches law at the university of minnesota when he is not out in l.a. hanging out with bill mar. and here in new york ar y melber nbc's chief legal correspondent. welcome to you both counselors. ari you get the math question up top. where did the president get his math on a 9-0 decision in his favor? and how many people -- actual people will this end up affecting from now to october? >> i think he got his math from the most creative lawyering you
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can get which is to take an unsigned opinion of the court which doesn't have a head count and say, well nobody was actively dissenting from this opinion so i'm going to call it unanimous. in fact all we know is that the opinion was speaking for the court and the actual vote count will come later on the merits. how many people? well we ball park somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 150,000 people normally let in. initially this blocked the travel ban for all of them. and now immigration experts are telling us that about half might satisfy this new test that the court put out today. meaning that somewhere around, you know, 75,000 plus people may still get through while the other half are now blocked by the partially in-stated travel ban. >> and just check me on this. the court today made a standard that says, you just got to have somebody, a person perhaps a church group, definitely a job, a school that is accepted you.
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you have to have pennsylvania real connection to the united states from these countries to come to the united states. it's those of you who don't that we're not allowing in the united states. >> that's right. to put it in a sentence. the court said you can still enforce the travel ban against foreign nationals with no link to the u.s. so they're out of the game. but people who have as you just described the links can still appeal and be in the game. >> richard painter let's fast forward to october. the court takes on this subject in chief. but the travel ban will have expired by the time they get their hands dirty in the case. what happens? >> well, if the president wants to continue with the travel ban he can issue a new travel ban, and presumably it would be the same travel ban. the problem is the president has been tweeting that he really wants a different travel ban,
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the one he originally had, and that this is just the watered down version. if the president plays that game he changes the travel ban between now and october to put it back where it was before at the beginning of the administration, i think the supreme court is going to get quite irritated. they're not going to want to be looking at moving target here. they need to told exactly what the travel ban is that the president wants to implement and then make a decision. all we had today was a preliminary decision about what they're going to allow between now and when they make a final decision. there is no decision from the court yet. the president has created a very bad record here in this case by running all over the country talking about a muslim ban. and calling it a travel ban. and then the lawyers in the justice department try to avoid the term travel ban that the president tweeted out, it is a travel ban, in all caps.
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this is a very messy case. and the supreme court's going to have a lot of work to do between now and october to figure out what the law really is. is this constitutional or is it not? that's going to be a very challenging decision for the supreme court. and i don't think we ought to be trying to read too many tea leaves today from what happened today. >> you and richard have been so good not using terms like per cure yam. people watching this know that the two other federal courts blocked it. what did the supreme court find notable they didn't? what virtue did they find that the other federal courts did not. >> well the other federal courts really dug into what mr. painter was talking about the tweets. >> the history of this. >> the history ab, the and mouse and how do you ignore it when someone talks openly about religious zrimgs? this ruling didn't go down the
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road taufrl they loongd at the who, not the why. it's likely lawyers pushing against the case will likely push the why. . you got to look at what he said. you got to look at the behind the curtain of the bare text of the order. folks may remember back in vietnam era, there was the discussion maybe you declare victory and leave. there is the possibility it's the smart lawyers prevail when the 90-day deadline runs the trump administration says we did it for 90 days got part of it done under the supreme court. let's declare victory and close up shop. >> two smart lawyers and we're awfully happy they are on our team. ar y smell ber, richard painter. . thank you very much. still ahead tonight what spies around the world can learn from the president's twitter feed? also, i served as defense secretary. white house chief of staff, cia director and then some. leon panetta with us when "the 11th hour" continues.
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welcome back to the monday night edition of our broadcast. earlier tonight i spoke with leon panetta. long-term member of congress, the democratic party in california, formerly white house chief of staff to bill clinton, formerly secretary of defense and formerly director of the cia. i started by asking him about something president trump wrote on twitter. quote, the reason that president obama did nothing about russia after being notified by the cia of meddling is that he expected clinton would win. he didn't choke he colluded or obstructed. here is leon panetta response. >> well, i think the president will use any kind of diversion he can to try to take attention away from him and his responsibility as president to deal with what the russians not only did during the election but the threat this they represent
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in the future. i -- i just -- i don't see a lot of -- a lot of credibility by someone who has called the russian interference a hoax, a witch hunt, has blamed it on hackers, has blamed it on the chinese. and i think has used every diversion to try to take attention away from it. and i think this is what the attack is with regards to president obama. just another diversion. >> mr. secretary, what do you think is happening to our image overseas, especially among allies? what do you fear is happening to our image overseas? >> well, i worry a great deal about it. because i've always -- i've always felt that the united states since world war ii has represented strong leadership in
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the world. and has been an important factor in terms of not only working with our allies but working to try to preserve the peace in our times. and i think that as our allies look to the united states, as other countries look to the united states they're not sure whether that leadership is going to be there when they need it. and i think there is a great deal of concern, a great deal of nervousness and a lot of questions about whether or not the united states will continue to provide world leadership instead of just retreating into foretres america. >> one of the kinder things you've said about the current administration is to say they are dysfunctional. in your view how far off the plumb line of normal for administrations are they? do they remain still? >> well, i worry about that a great deal.
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look, president trump won the election. he is president of the united states. i think all of us believe that the presidents of the united states ought to succeed in office because we are all dependent on a president being able to do that. but what i sense is a tremendous amount of disorganization within the white house in terms of the ability to provide the command and control, support system, that needs to be provided to the president. i think there are too many centers of power, too much competition, too many people who are running around who do not have specific responsibilities in terms of their jobs. i think the president has to get a stronger chain of command in the white house if he is ever going to be able to succeed as president. >> finally, a question about health care. mostly because you were a member of congress for so long. and you know very well the human
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toll it can take at the other end. what do you make of the senate plan today? what we're hearing about it? what cbo has said about it and what we know of the house plan, and what we're likely to see in the effort to repeal and replace obamacare? >> in my experience in the congress, any time a major piece of legislation is rushed to judgment it usually winds up failing. and not accomplishing what it's intended to do. i think that rushing to judgment on a major piece of legislation -- we just fwound out that 22 million people will lose their health insurance as a result of this bill. that's unacceptable. and it's going to create a tremendous amount of pressure on those members who represent people, ordinary people, who will lose health coverage.
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i just -- i just don't understand the rush to judgment here. because this is a major issue affecting every american in this country. they ought to take their time and do it right. >> joining us from the panetta institute, formerly congressman, formerly cia director, formerly secretary of defense leon panetta thank you for being with us. >> thank you, brian. >> and up next here as we take one more break from twitter with love. what the president's tweets are telling spies across the world. when "the 11th hour" continues.
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broadcast. as we mentioned another busy day for the president on twitter, but americans aren't the only ones watching what he says in that medium. this "washington post" piece comes from a former cia veteran. quote, this is what foreign spies see when they reed president trump's tweets.
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it goes on, trump's twitter feed is a gold mine for every foreign intelligence agency. the president's unfiltered thoughts are available night and day broadcast to his 32.7 million twitter followers immediately and without much obvious mediation by diplomats, strategists or handlers. the author of this piece is former cia nada bakos. thank you so much for being with us. i guess the first question for those who have yet to read your piece, what are we americans not seeing that could be damaging or revealing, and what are people in your line of work reading those tweets looking for? >> more than initiation an intelligence analyst looks for information on world leaders that adds to the information
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that they were collecting through classified means. what is so different about trump's tweets and the advantage it gives to foreign intelligence agencies is he's doing this in an unfiltered way and openly in the public forum. intelligence agencies collect information and do it o co. vertly and sometimes risking their lives to collect that information. this offers an ininciting into trump himself as the person, which is very unusual as far as world leader. >> so your problem not that he's tweeting about being in florida or new jersey or at the white house. most days he's been relitigating the russia case. he has gone after his perez assess or in office. what are examples of what he's
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saying is saving our opponents and enemies work? >> it exposes his priorities and tells us what news programs he's watching and what he's reading. what's top of mind at any given hour of in addition, it tells us what his vulnerabilities are when he's concerned about a russian investigation, that gives him a sense of what could they use to influence the president, cause disruption, and possibly win favor with him? his deleted tweets also give a little bit of insight into how infiltered his tweets are. that also gives an analyst some insight. >> if i assigned you to put a binder on my table tomorrow morning with a personality profile, some of the information, some of where you would start, you've already gained through public domain
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doing what we all do, reading what he says on twitter every morning? >> yes, absolutely. his lag of timing of tweets, for instance, also gives insight into what is it he's distracted birks what is it he's finding a priority. if there's a u.s. military action, is he tweeting about it right away, how long in between an action does it take for him to do that. and then comparing that to the official potus account is insightful because those seem to be the more formal ones. >> thank you very much for congress on our broadcast this evening. a final break for us, and coming up, what ivanka trump tries to avoid while working in
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at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. . and one last thing before we go here to the extent. first daughter and assistant to the president ivanka trump working on key issues on the west wing. she said something interest about her role in the west wing. it was during an interview with "fox and friends," the president's favorite morning show. >> you are an adviser to the president of the united states. what are do you advise your father on? >> i advise my father on a plethora of things. i give him on open and candid feedback. i try to stay out of politics. his political instincts are phenomenal. >> again, her title, assistant to the president of the united
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states in the west wing of the white house. later in the interview, ivanka trump said she would give her father a for the job he has done as president so far. that is our broadcast as we start a new week. thank you for being here with us. good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. the president's son-in-law has tonight hired one the of country's most prominent criminal defense lawyers. this prominent criminal defense lawyer will be representing jared kushner personally in the trump/russia investigation. his name is abbe lowell. he is one of the few criminal defense lawyers in america who i think counts as household name. he is most famous for having been the democrats' top lawyer during the impeachment proceedings against bill clinton. he also represented the fabulously corrupt convicted republican super lobbyist, jack abram off.